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Welcome to the Creative Studio podcast where we conduct experiments with podcasting. We have been delving into the world of creating a narrative podcast, whether that is a journalistic, fiction, or NPR style. This is our seventh episode in this 10-part series, so if you haven’t listened to the first six, it would probably be best to do that first.

I’d like to start by giving a special thanks to today’s guests: Rye Taylor, Bryan Orr, Jessica Abel, Daniel J. Lewis, Geoff Woods, The Dave Jackson, Corey Coates, Jessica Rhodes, and Elsie Escobar. We’re going to explore the peaks and valleys, the stakes, loops, emotions, and more.

1 – [Rye’s story about wrestling the gator]

We just heard from Rye Taylor sharing his story and leaving it on a cliff hanger and go into some kind of a transition.

12 – Foreshadowing (Rye)

I guess this is where Paul Harvey should come in. But, we have Bryan Orr to continue this thought.

3 – What is at stake? (Bryan)


10 – Raise a question (Jessica Abel)

That was Jessica Abel. I mentioned this several times, but you really need to listen to her podcast and buy her book, “Out on the Wire” by going to CreativeStudio.Academy/wire.

Not only do you need start with an intriguing teaser by foreshadowing, determine what is at stake, and figure out how to raise a question in your listener’s mind, you need to look at the overall story you’re telling. You need to see the ups and downs. Daniel J. Lewis calls these peaks and valleys.

14 – Start with a peak (Daniel)

Not just should you start and end with a peak, Bryann Orr adds to this by suggesting that you start with your best tape first to draw them in.

4 – Best tape first (Bryan)

18 – Set the stage (Geoff)

Geoff Woods of the Mentee Podcast states this well. As the host or narrator, it’s important for us to set the stage by giving the context and necessary information to understand what’s about to come. He continues by talking about loops.

19 – Open loops (Geoff)

We are driven a lot by our emotions. Really think about the decisions you make. There are certainly some that you make after logically thinking through the matter, but there are a lot of times that our emotions direct what we do. Emotions draw us into TV show, movies, and other forms of story. Dave Jackson defines some specific aspects of emotion that apply here.

11 – Emotion (Dave)

6 – Emotional markers (Corey)

That was Corey Coates of Podfly Productions and the Podcast Producers podcast. Bryan Orr and Daniel J. Lewis bring the conversation back to those peaks and valleys, or emotional bounce.

2 – Emotional bounce/balance (Bryan)

13 – Ups and downs (Daniel)

Else Escobar joins us again to blend her experience as an actress and podcaster by talking about pacing and breaking the rhythm.

15 – Pacing/break the rhythm (Elsie)

Jessica Rhodes is the co-host of the Podcast Producers with Corey. She mentions differing the vocals to change the pace as well as using music as a hook.

8 – Different vocals (Jessica Rhodes)

9 – Music as a hook (Jessica Rhodes)

16 – Music (Elsie)

17 – Driving forward (Elsie)

Some narration is usually necessary to be able to make transitions, to move the story forward, or fill in missing information. But Corey shares the ideal way to craft the story.

7 – Guest-created story (Corey)

Just like we should start with a bang, we need to end it well, too. What do you want to leave the listener with?

5 – The ending (Bryan)

As we wrap up this episode, we need to remember that this is all more of an art than a science. Yes, we have mentioned frameworks and best practices, but this is just where we should start.

[Elsie quote – “break the mold”]

When it comes to enticing your listener to keep listening, you may have to play around with different things to see what works best. The specific style you are using or the message you are trying to convey may change how you want to do this. A great thing you can do to help yourself is try to pay more attention to TV shows and movies.

  • How do they tease upcoming shows?
  • How do they start the show?
  • How to they end things before going to a commercial?
  • What do they do at the end to try to bring you back next time?

As you pay attention to these and try to dissect what they do, it will help you learn how to apply that to your podcast.

If you have found this series helpful, please share this with others. I want to help as many people as possible. In fact, one way I’d like to help people is by delving deeper into this through a course. If you’d be interested in a course where you’ll not only get more about creating a narrative, but you’ll also get one-on-one time with me and collaborative experience with others, go to It’ll give you a little more information and you can sign up to talk with me about how I can help you more with this.

Come back next time and we’ll talk about making transitions between clips and part of the narrative. Thank you again and God bless.